Episode #27: Celebrating 2 years of Mistakes That Made Me & what we’ve learned about mistakes along the way
It’s been two years since we launched Mistakes That Made Me! In this special anniversary episode, I’m celebrating this milestone with my podcast producer, Zuri Berry.
We reflect on the journey, chat about our favorite episodes, and share what we’ve learned about mistakes after two years of interviewing extraordinary business owners.
Listen to the Episode
Show notes
Links from this episode:
Behind the scenes of Mistakes That Made Me: emancopyco.com/bts
More on Zuri Berry: zmcpodcasts.com
If you loved this episode, take a screenshot, post it on Instagram, and tell everyone you know that this is the podcast to listen to. Don’t forget to tag me! @emancopyco
-
Eman Ismail: Hey, welcome to Mistakes That Made Me, the podcast that asks extraordinary business owners to share their biggest business mistake so you know what not to do on your road to success. Mistakes That Made Me is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.
I'm Eman Ismail, your host, and this episode is not an interview. Today I'm celebrating Mistakes That Made Me's second anniversary. It was almost two years to the day that we're recording this, that we released the first episode of Mistakes That Made Me. We're recording this on August the 8th, and it was on August the 9th, 2022, that we released the very first episode of Mistakes That Made Me with Vivian Kaye, and that episode was called The $12,000 Mistake with Vivian Kaye, nearly two years ago.
But I'm super excited to share that I'm not the only host on this episode today. I've got a co-host with me, Zuri Berry, who is the producer of this podcast. Now, if you haven't listened to our behind-the-scenes episode, you won't have heard from Zuri before. So I'm going to let Zuri introduce himself and say hi. Hey, Zuri.
Zuri Berry: Yeah. Thank you, Eman. My name is Zuri Berry. I am a podcast producer, a journalist, a digital editor, all of those things. And I'm based here in the United States in Washington, D.C. And we have been working together for I think a little bit more than those two years to get this podcast up and running and also to get going.
So my background experience has been in the media field. I've done sports journalism, I've been an editor for newspapers, and then a multimedia editor, so primarily focused on video, and then I transitioned into radio and was a editor for NPR public radio stations. And so now I'm doing my own thing, and I get to meet wonderful people like Eman as well as others who are focused on business or entrepreneurism. And it's just a sort of fantastic experience.
And so producing this podcast has been one of my joys because I love getting to learn from others. And what's funny is that so much of the guests on Mistakes That Made Me sort of point me, push me, prod me in the right direction in terms of what I should do with my business. And so I think we're going to talk a little bit about that today.
Eman Ismail: Yeah, absolutely. It's been a joy working with you too, Zuri. One of the things I love is that I think we're just on the same page creatively, like, I have an idea about production, how something should be or sound, and before I even tell you, you've already done it exactly how I wanted it done. And I think that we're both really experimental and creative, and I think we work really well together, which is why the podcast is so good and enjoyable to create as well and just fun to do.
But I felt like it was really important for us to create this episode because I didn't want this milestone to just kind of pass us by. I really wanted to appreciate this milestone because a lot of podcasts don't get to the two-year mark and having a podcast isn't easy. That's why a lot of podcasts don't get to the two-year mark. It's not easy. There's so much work involved.
So we want to celebrate it and we hope you'll stick around and celebrate it with us too because we're going to talk about what we've learned over the past couple of years interviewing people about mistakes. What have we learned about mistakes? You know, spending two years interviewing a bunch of business owners about theirs.
So let's first acknowledge some of the amazing milestones that we've hit over the past two years. What's your favourite of the milestones that we've hit, Zuri?
Zuri Berry: So the big one for me was the Best Business Podcast that we won in 2023. That was the Black Podcasting Awards. And I had sort of nudged you to say, "Hey, I think we should apply to this." And you went ahead and just took the baton and ran with it and then came back with the Best Business award as well as Best New Podcast award from this group. And what's great about this group is that they're influential in the podcast space, so it's important to me professionally in that sense, but it's also like a recognition, like the quality level is just so much better than so many other podcasts that are out there that could have won this award. I mean, this is a stacked category.
And so you'll see, and we're going to go through it, that there's a bunch of different outlets and industries, folks that recognise Mistakes That Made Me for the work that you're doing and the interviews that you've done and the storytelling involved, but this is just sort of like that generalised category that says, "No, we're just better than so many other podcasts that are out there," that I think are really good, that I listen to, that I pay attention to, and that people in my circles pay attention to. So I was excited about that. I'd love to know what yours was, what your favourite recognition was.
Eman Ismail: Okay, wait, before I say that, let me just say I'm laughing because— Well, first of all, my awards came a couple of weeks ago. So I now have the actual awards physically with me, which is amazing. Best New Podcast 2023, Best Business Podcast 2023. And I'm laughing because I didn't think that I was going to win anything. If I had thought I was going to win something, I would have broadcast my laptop on the TV and got the whole family to watch. My son, eight years old right now, he would have loved to watch it with me, but I didn't think I was going to win. So I was like, "I'm not going to do that to everyone."
And so I was just kind of like watching it in a corner on my laptop in the living room. And then they said Mistakes That Made Me for the first category and I was like, "Oh!" and just couldn't quite believe it but of course had no one really to celebrate with because I was just watching it in a corner by myself. And then we won the second category, the Best New Podcast, and I was just blown away. Definitely didn't think we'd be winning two awards. Didn't even expect to win the one. I mean, I knew that our podcast was good and that it deserved to win, but there were so many good podcasts in those categories.
So yeah, I look back on that memory and I'm like, I just think if only I wasn't fearful of losing, it would have been an even bigger moment that I could have still celebrated with my family. But I did show my son the replay, because we had the replays, and he was amazed. He was absolutely amazed. And then a few weeks later he said to me, "Mama, when I grow up, I want to win awards like you." [laughs]
Zuri Berry: Oh, that's so nice. Oh my goodness. That's amazing. Oh, I love to hear that. Oh, wow.
Eman Ismail: He's just the best. He's so lovely. And so it was really great to share that with him. And he often says something about, "Mama, remember that time when you won an award?" and he talks about my podcast and he likes to listen to it. And yeah, it's a lot of fun. He's a lot of fun.
But in terms of my favourite milestone, I think the awards are a big one, but joining the HubSpot Podcast Network was also another one for me-
Zuri Berry: Hmm. Yeah.
Eman Ismail: -because so many creators, podcasters that I really look up to and really respect are on the network and I think the HubSpot Podcast Network is, for me anyway, personally, I think is the best network specifically for business podcasts, and I was just so excited that they were open to working with me and just the resources and the connections and the relationships that they bring and that kind of thing.
Me and HubSpot are working on something else at the moment that has nothing to do with the podcast, but yeah, I can't really—
Zuri Berry: Hmm, intriguing. [laughs]
Eman Ismail: Yes, intriguing, but I can't share right now. But it's about that as well, creating relationships and connections and doing cool stuff with a huge company in different areas of my business, not necessarily just the podcast, you know? So that's brought a lot of great stuff.
And then of course, there's all the stuff that people don't really know about, just being recognised by various companies like Shopify's 20 Best Business Podcasts for Entrepreneurs in 2023 and 2024. This is on their blog, their website. Square's 20 Best Business Podcasts of 2023 and 2024, Podcast Review's 9 Best Business Podcasts, Headway's 19 Best Business Podcasts Every Serious Business Owner Should Listen To and regularly charting in Apple Podcasts charts in various countries, getting to number 1 in the Goodpods 100 Indie Careers chart, number 1 in Goodpods Top 100 Indie Entrepreneurship chart. There's just so, so many. There's just so many. And so-
Zuri Berry: Yeah.
Eman Ismail: -it's nice to be seen.
Zuri Berry: It's also one of those things. And if I could just add a point to that. Some of these that you were recognised for, you didn't do any outreach to these people. And I want to make that clear because sometimes there's some gaming that goes on with some of these recognition lists and there's a sort of back and forth and there's even, at various times, unfortunately in this industry, some pay to play, right? And that hasn't happened here. It's been like, "Oh, I got a Google alert that I was mentioned." And there's Mistakes That Made Me that's getting recognised by Shopify. And it's like, "Oh, that's huge." That's a-
Eman Ismail: It is.
Zuri Berry: -big deal. That's a really cool thing. I don't know if that was an exhaustive list because I feel like we're missing a couple of others where you showed up on this person's Top 5 Business Podcasts list, which I think is great. It's been this nice organic thing where it's just sort of really seeding. Kudos to you because I think you've conducted some fantastic interviews with some really interesting people, and then we've wrapped that into a little bit of storytelling.
And so it's been a wonderful experience for me creatively as a producer. So I get to come in and I get to take what I think is a really good interview that could sit probably on its own and then enhance that in some kind of way.
Eman Ismail: Thank you.
Zuri Berry: So that's been the fantastic part about the podcast, and just having that recognised is very fulfilling.
Eman Ismail: It is. It really is. It really is. So in terms of why I decided to create a podcast about mistakes, first of all, I just know as a storyteller that people are tired of hearing about successes. Successes are boring. It's just boring. Nobody wants to hear about that. The failures are so much more interesting. There's so much more to learn from when you hear about someone's failures as opposed to their successes.
Zuri Berry: Yeah.
Eman Ismail: Also, I was fascinated by the fact that I have always been really hard on myself if ever I make a mistake in my personal life, as in like needed therapy type of hard, that hard on myself, but when it came to business, if I make a mistake in business, I'll give myself the time to feel the feelings, and then quite quickly, I forgive myself. I'd have a conversation with myself telling myself, "Well, you'll never do that again. Just don't do that again. It wasn't a good idea. It didn't work out well. Don't do it again. It's fine. Move on. Next thing."
And so that separation was really interesting to me. And I really wanted to explore mistakes and failures as a business owner. And then on top of that, I'm a really big fan of the How to Fail With Elizabeth Day podcast. Really love that podcast, but there were a few things that I would change about it. So she asks people to share their three life failures, and for me, it's too much. There's too much crammed into the episode. I would love to be able to— because the guests move on quite quickly because they don't have much time to get through all three failures. And so I knew as, again, someone who is a messaging expert, that one message is much clearer and stronger and more engaging as well, I think, for audiences, and more memorable too.
Zuri Berry: Yeah. And so this is where your expertise really comes to shine, right? Which is not just that, "Okay, I recognise that it needs to be a much more focused opportunity there" right? Like, "Well, how can this podcast be different if I want to do this?" right? But then you sort of said, "Okay. Well, how can I also include some storytelling here?"
Eman Ismail: Yes.
Zuri Berry: And this is where the magic of Eman is on showcase, right? You introduce people to this person but through sort of a concept, whatever it may be, that the episode is about, and usually that relates to some personal story of your own or something else, and it walks people through or walks people up to the interview that allows for it to be much more engaging than "Hi, my name is Eman and this is my guest and this is what we're going to talk about today." And I think that is also the differentiating factor for your podcast. And that's what I advocate for as a producer.
Eman Ismail: Well, it's funny you say that because— Well, first of all, let me just say that I wanted the podcast to be basically the business version of How To Fail, but different. And then I also love Guy Raz's How I Built This and I love the narrative, storytelling that he does in that, and so I wanted to fuse the two and bring them together. And actually, some of those lists I talked about like best podcasts, Mistakes That Made Me is actually listed beside How To Fail on one side and Guy Raz's How I Built This on the other, which is just a dream that my podcast is between those two podcasts in some of these lists.
But it's funny because I love the intro/outro. I love that narrative aspect, that storytelling. I think that's what makes the podcast very different from so many others. However, I did have people telling me to get rid of the intro and they said-
Zuri Berry: [gasps] Who said that?
Eman Ismail: They were like— [laughs]
Zuri Berry: [laughs]
Eman Ismail: They were like, "Listen, we just want to get to the interview. All this talk, I don't want it. I don't want the story. I just want to get straight to the interview." And it shook my confidence for a minute. And I was like, "Oh no, you just don't get it. You just don't get it." But the people that do get it will love it. And there will be people that hate it. So they can hate it. That's fine. You just don't need to listen to it. But the people who get it will get it.
Zuri Berry: There's a skip button, you know. I keep thinking maybe we should introduce chapter markers so people can move along. Maybe we should talk about that eventually. [laughs]
Eman Ismail: Maybe, yeah.
Zuri Berry: But yeah. I understand it from a sense of— So I am probably the world's most impatient person in terms of like a producer, editor, et cetera, in the sense that I'm always telling people to get to the point. And so we worked very early on about making sure that there was no fluff, that there was a pacing to it. So that way you immediately are hearing yourself, you're introducing that concept, and maybe you're hearing some music or something that keeps you engaged.
You're like, "Oh, what is that sound? What is going on there?" "Oh, and then I've got a sound bite here. Oh, and then there's another sound bite here." And it just picks you up. The next thing you know, it's three minutes in and you're like, "Okay, here's the interview." And that's how you just push things forward. So if we failed in any kind of way, it's because we haven't always adhered to that, but I like that criticism at the same time. I'm like, "Let me just do better for that person by making sure that pace is where it needs to be, so that way they continue to be a fan of Mistakes That Made Me." That's how I take it at least.
Eman Ismail: Okay. Well, that's really nice. 'Cause I'm like, "Just don't listen." [laughs] Just go. Anyway. No, I'm joking, kind of, half.
So what's been really interesting to me is when I started this podcast, I thought that the point of the podcast was going to be about how I can help the listener avoid making mistakes in business, just completely avoid it based on the stories that are being shared and the lessons that are being shared, right? And what I've realised as we've gone on, is that what this podcast is actually about is not helping the listener to avoid making mistakes entirely, but it's about normalising making mistakes. And it's normalising mistakes.
Sure, we're sharing these stories in the hope that maybe you don't make that specific mistake that the guest is sharing. You've heard their story and now you know to avoid those traps and pitfalls. But this isn't about you avoiding making mistakes completely because that's just never going to happen as a business owner. The mission of this podcast is to normalise mistakes.
And you know what I actually have—I'm really proud of this, but I don't think the listeners actually get to hear this or have ever heard this one. Let me share it with you. The mission of this podcast is to normalise making mistakes and to help business owners accept failure as an important and necessary part of business building. We do this by, one, having open and vulnerable conversations about the mistakes made by extraordinary business owners and, two, by sharing actionable business lessons, advice, and strategies so we can all do better in the future.
Zuri Berry: Man, that is such a great mission statement.
Eman Ismail: Thank you. Can I say, being a copywriter really has its perks.
Zuri Berry: You know, listen, it's funny because I have gone through the process of trying to engage clients, potential clients, and saying, "Hey, I think you should have a mission statement for your podcast." Right? "Something that guides you, which provides focus at the very minimum." And it's surprisingly difficult to get that across. Nobody likes the contractor consultant to come on and tell you to work on your mission statement. [laughs]
Eman Ismail: Well, it's true.
Zuri Berry: But it's so helpful-
Eman Ismail: It is.
Zuri Berry: -in focusing your efforts. And that clearly has shown through here. And so I just wanted to highlight that.
Eman Ismail: Stick around. Don't go anywhere. We'll get right back to this episode after this quick break.
Systems Saved Me, hosted by Jordan Gill, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Jordan was a guest on this show, and it was on Episode 16 where she shared her biggest business mistake—overhiring in her seven-figure business. If you loved that conversation with Jordan, you'll love Jordan's podcast, Systems Saved Me, where she lifts the hood to show you behind the scenes of successful businesses with freedom at its core.
She talks about how she uses systems to run her business as someone who has three chronic illnesses and a family. If I were you, I'd start with Episode 391, How You Can Stop Marketing by Accident. Listen to Systems Saved Me wherever you get your podcasts.
Zuri, tell me what is your favourite episode or your favourite mistake or your favourite lesson or guest so far?
Zuri Berry: So I'm a big fan of the Caroline and Jason Zook episode, and there's a whole bunch of reasons for that. It's mostly because Jason has this wealth of, or library of internet content that is just available of things that he's worked on. And it was just nice to sort of integrate some of that silliness and goofiness that he—you know, he's a very affable person—into the introduction of who they are and what they're doing.
And then the conversation was just amazing. I mean, they're podcasters themselves, so they're great communicators. And so it was just a nice life lesson in terms of like, what is enough, which is, I think, something we all have to ask at some point, and also just a great, I think—and I'm tooting my own horn here—but a great production of what that interview could be. And I constantly highlight that to folks like, "This is what your podcast could be if you wanted to do it." [laughs] So it's that good of an episode. So I frequently tell people, "If you're going to listen to some of my work, listen to this episode of Mistakes That Made Me. It's a fantastic interview and also the production is amazing." So there.
Eman Ismail: It is amazing. That is one of my favourite episodes. I just love Jason and Caroline Zook always. They're fantastic. I'm going to shout out Belinda's episode, Going and Growing Too Slow. I love Mai-kee's episode, Tarzan Kay's episode. I will say—Oh, Laura Jane Barnes's episode, that was a recent one, about her business becoming her entire identity, something I can really relate to.
But actually, I think one of my favourites is the one I just recorded yesterday that isn't out yet, but will hopefully get you a little bit excited, which is my interview with Liz Mosley, and her business mistake is letting her fear of rejection stop her from doing the things that she wanted to in business, and it's such a great conversation. And you know when the conversation is just electric and you're both super energised and you both really enjoy it, that's a sign of a really great conversation that I know that people listening are going to enjoy. And it's those ones that people will send me DMs about and emails about telling me they really enjoyed it or they really felt seen and heard. So I'm excited for everyone to listen to that one.
Zuri Berry: That's really cool. So much of what we've just discussed is, if you will, about the podcast and why it's great and all of these different things, but the underlying draw for listeners is about the mistakes and how people have learned from them. And I think through the course of producing this podcast, what I'm starting to learn from it has sort of shifted. And I know that you've mentioned this as well, that it sort of shifted from avoiding mistakes to normalising them, but for me, it's like, now I'm starting to feel like I just see this underlying human-to-human connection problem, communication problem that sometimes exists, and we're just having a hard time with that.
So many of the mistakes are about like, "I'm overcoming some mental block, a trauma, the ability to communicate what I really want," all of those things. To me, exploring that in depth has been a real gift for me. I said this to you in a WhatsApp chat. I was saying, "Listen, I listened to a lot of podcasts, and by osmosis, I take in so much information and learn from it. I find myself most enriched by Mistakes That Made Me because people are really vulnerable and they explain why they're experiencing this trauma or they're having this communication problem or how they overcame it or whatever it may be." I think that's what's been really cool. And not avoiding, but embracing the fact that these problems exist and allowing ourselves to fail, if you will, and bounce back. I think that's also the inspiring part, too.
Eman Ismail: You know, when you said the guests are very vulnerable, the first person I actually thought of was Emily Thompson from Being Boss and Almanac Supply Co. Her episode in Season 1, I think it's Episode 6, where she talks about choosing the wrong business partner. She was so open and so vulnerable. And I think that's what makes this podcast so great. The guests make the podcast so great—their vulnerability, their openness, their honesty.
And I get a lot of cold pitches from people who want to be on the podcast and I ask them, "What is your biggest business mistake that you'd share on the podcast?" And a lot of the time, it's very surface level stuff, very surface level, sometimes even like humble braggy kind of thing. And what's so great is that the guests don't bring any of that to the show. It's just true vulnerability. It's just true just openness and honesty. It's amazing. It's amazing how open they've been.
And one of the things I've realised and that I've learned about mistakes is that a lot of the fear that we have around mistakes and a lot of the feelings that we have around making mistakes is about shame. So much of this is about shame, and it's about feeling shame around the mistakes that we make or the failures that we experience.
And I think what I've learned is that shame dies in the open, which is why it's so important for us to share our stories of mistakes because when we share them, when we share our stories, the ones that may be kind of otherwise be buried deep inside us out of shame, the shame kind of vanishes into the shadows. It disappears into the shadows because I think shame grows and like feeds on secrecy.
Zuri Berry: Fears, insecurities, all of those things.
Eman Ismail: Yes, exactly. And Brené Brown has this amazing quote from The Gifts of Imperfection and she says, "Shame hates it when we reach out and tell our story. It hates having words wrapped around it. It can't survive being shared. Shame loves secrecy. When we bury our story, the shame metastasises." That just really touched me, and I think that is so important about the conversation that we're having when it comes to sharing our mistakes and being open with one another about it.
Zuri Berry: Yeah, there is something cathartic about the show and unspooling these thoughts, these feelings, and almost like a therapy session, sometimes talking through the pain of something that occurred. And sometimes the mistakes vary, I mean, in severity and financially [laughs], but there are times in which it's been really deep, it's been really serious, and I think it's been helpful to, again, go through that and share that story for others, whatever lesson that might be drawn from it that somebody else could use for their own good in terms of how they go through life or go through business.
Eman Ismail: Yeah, absolutely. So when I think about how we can reframe the way that we think about mistakes and what I've learned from the podcast over the past couple of years, in that sense, I think for me, the main things are, one, that you have to learn from your mistakes. As long as you learn from your mistake, it's really not a mistake. It's a learning opportunity. It's a life lesson.
And it's funny because a lot of the guests come onto the show and they'll start talking about the mistake and they'll say, "Well, that's why it's not really a mistake. It's not a mistake. It wasn't a mistake." And I'm like, "Stop, stop, stop, stop. This is the wrong section. We're not talking about lessons right now. We're not talking about how great this mistake was right now. I just need you to concentrate on the mistake," because it's so true and they feel it so hard. Actually, as they're reflecting on it, they're like, "Wait a minute, this definitely wasn't a mistake. This needed to happen." So as long as we learn from it, it's usually going to be worth it.
The second thing is, in terms of reframing the way that we think about mistakes, you've got to think about mistakes being just completely inevitable instead of trying to avoid them. Instead of trying to avoid making mistakes in your business, expect to make mistakes in your business. And that helps you prepare for them better as well.
Zuri Berry: Can I just speak on that just really briefly?
Eman Ismail: Yeah.
Zuri Berry: I think so much of what I worry about in terms of my business, which has come through in the podcast too, by the way, in interviews, I think multiple episodes, which is that there's this de-risking that you do when you aren't willing to make mistakes, right? You're trying to say, "Oh, you know, I just want to play it safe," with whatever it may be. And you lose out on a lot of opportunities by not trying things, by not taking risks, and all of that.
I think it's a really good thing to learn from, "Okay. I tried this ad campaign that didn't work and I lost $5,000 and so on and so forth." That's a big mistake, whatever it may be, but it's actually an actionable thing to take the results of that and then apply it to how you move forward in your marketing and promotion. There are different examples of this and different levels of this, that I think is important.
And so we structured the podcast so that way we start with this introduction of concept, we walk you through how this person got to this mistake, they talk about the mistake itself, and then they reflect on that mistake in terms of what they might have learned from it. And all of that is to get to that point of saying, like, "How can we reframe it so that it's helpful for you, the listener?" I think that's really cool. I think about the fearfulness that we all have in terms of that risk and how that's shown up in these different ways, and it all feels very tied together.
Eman Ismail: Yeah, I totally agree. And I've never really thought of it before, but you're right, we do, in the way that we shape the episode, we do work to reframe the mistake in the story that we're telling. It's important that we do that to get the message across. Because I think at the end of the day, we share a lot of stories of difficulty and sometimes pain, and we definitely want to have the listeners go away with something positive and something helpful and productive and useful.
Zuri Berry: Let me ask you a question. This podcast has been remarkable and we've, I think, had a couple of opportunities between the behind the scenes episode and here now to talk about that, but what for folks that aren't on the secret podcast feed that you have in your community—
Eman Ismail: Yeah, in my private podcast.
Zuri Berry: Yeah, check it out in the show notes. But like can you talk to the folks on the public feed a little bit about the goals for this podcast and what you're trying to do down the line now? Because you've had your summer break, but we're coming back. We're coming back.
Eman Ismail: We are, we absolutely are coming back. But wait, just before I do say that, Zuri-
Zuri Berry: Sure.
Eman Ismail: -can I just add two more reframes? Which is, number three was to look to the past for evidence of the fact that you can get over your mistakes. You have not got through your life or you've not got to the point that you have in business right now without making mistakes. You've made mistakes before. You'll make mistakes in the future. You've survived your past ones. You'll be fine. I think that can be really helpful in terms of getting through the fear of making mistakes in business. And actually, that's a therapy technique that I learned in therapy of just looking back to the past for evidence to help you prove something to yourself.
And then also the last thing is just thinking to yourself, like, "What is my fear of making a mistake preventing me from having?"
So in terms of the future goals for this podcast, the things that I'm looking forward to, I think—Well, the first thing is that the podcast is going to have a nice new shiny page on my website, section on my website, which I'm really excited about. The one that I have up right now is very much like DIY, just so that we have something. I don't even like to look at it. And now I'm excited to have a page that's going to be up soon that I'm excited to share with people and not hiding from people.
So that's the first thing, just given, you know—
Zuri Berry: You know, I just want to point out that when you say, "I'm sort of ashamed to share with people," your design skills and eye are superior, incredible. And some of the designers that you've hired have been fantastic. And so-
Eman Ismail: Oh, yes.
Zuri Berry: -when you're like, "I am going to be excited about this new thing," the last one was pretty good, but obviously—
Eman Ismail: Okay, but that was super DIY. That was literally done at home, like DIY.
Zuri Berry: But it's still better than most. And I just want to point that out, that there's a lot of DIY that's not good. Like honestly, not good. And this—Yeah. Anyway, so don't diminish your light. Don't diminish your light. You're amazing. [laughs]
Eman Ismail: I mean— [laughs] Thank you, Zuri. I have really high standards. And I feel like this new—
Zuri Berry: And that's good.
Eman Ismail: Yeah, it's good. It's good. And this is why, by the way, I chose you to produce the podcast, because I was like, "I need the best of the best because I want to go places with this podcast. I have high expectations for it. I have big plans." But yeah, so the new section of the website I'm super excited about. And what's really important to me is to keep growing the podcast listenership so that we can keep getting amazing guests, so that we can keep producing amazing episodes.
Because the reality is when I want to get a really great or popular guest on the show, the first thing they ask me is, "What's your download number?" There's almost like a ceiling to the guests that I can get that aren't through personal connection until I grow the podcast listenership a whole lot more. And it is growing, it's growing, but with podcasts, it's a slow burn and it's all about consistency and just doing the same thing over and over and over again.
So that is really important to me. The more listeners we have, the more we can—just the better the show is going to be. And also, in terms of the resources that will be able to go into the show, the more podcasts episodes I can produce, the more listens that we have, the more podcast episodes I can produce in terms of the financial resources that we have available to us.
So a lot of my goals are going to be around how can I get even more people listening to this show so that this show can just get better and better and better. And one way to do that is if you listening right now share this podcast with just one person, with one person, that would make all the difference. And if you have an audience that loves a good business podcast, I would love for you to share this podcast with them via social media, even if you just take a screenshot of this episode and just tag us in it. Or maybe you want to write a post about the podcast, tag me in it so I can respond to you and share it. Or maybe if you have a newsletter, write about the podcast or an episode that specifically spoke to you. That will help keep the show going and help get the show to even bigger and better places in terms of quality, in terms of the guests, in terms of the stories that we're sharing.
Zuri Berry: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Eman Ismail: Yeah. And also, if you have a podcast, you do host a podcast, I always love going on podcasts, so send me an email, and let's make it happen. So we can have a combo on your podcast.
Zuri Berry: Yeah.
Eman Ismail: That would be fun. Yeah.
Now, I just want to let you know that if you loved this episode, if you loved this conversation between me and Zuri, we have an hour and 20-minute bonus episode of Mistakes That Made Me that you need to go listen to. We go into so much in terms of just the behind-the-scenes of this podcast, what goes into making it, what the production process looks like, how I came up with the concept of the show, how I choose the guests that I invite, how I research them, what that process looks like, how I landed the HubSpot partnership and what that agreement involves.
So, if that sounds interesting to you, go to emancopyco.com/bts, that's behind the scenes, BTS, or just click the link in the show notes. I'll leave that link there so that you can find it and go listen to this extra juicy bonus episode.
Zuri Berry: There you go.
Eman Ismail: Thank you so much for doing this, Zuri, and happy birthday to Mistakes That Made Me.
Zuri Berry: Yeah. Happy birthday to the podcast. Thanks for having me.
Eman Ismail: Happy birthday. Thanks, Zuri.