Episode #31: “Holding myself to neurotypical standards as a neurodivergent entrepreneur”
In this episode, I'm speaking with Martha Barnard-Rae, a TEDx speaker, copywriter, and the CEO of Word Candy. We discuss Martha's late diagnosis of ADHD and autism, the challenges of running a business while being neurodivergent, and how she adapted her working conditions to suit her needs.
Martha opens up about the systemic failings in recognizing neurodivergence in women and the importance of building a business and life tailored to her own requirements.
This episode is a call for empathy, understanding, and making radical changes to better accommodate diverse mental health needs.
Listen to the Episode
Links from the show:
Save $50 on Design Your VIP Week: emancopyco.com/vip-podcast
Martha’s website: https://www.wordcandy.com.au/
Martha’s Instagram: @wordcandycomms
Martha’s podcast: The One That Works For You Podcast: https://pod.link/1676212620
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Eman Ismail: A little trigger warning, miscarriage does come up in this conversation and it does get a little graphic so if that's something you don't want to hear about right now it might be best to listen in another time.
A few years ago I had a miscarriage. People often talk about the emotional and mental impact of miscarrying, as they should. It's a horrific thing to go through and it took me years to emotionally move past mine. But often what doesn't get spoken about is the physical, very graphic side of miscarrying.
So let me focus on that for just a quick second. It was one of the most painful things I've ever experienced. The bleeding, the shaking, the sweating, simply because of the immense pain, the cramping. I knew I needed to get to a doctor, but I couldn't physically move. All I could do was curl up in bed all day and wait for the pain to ease just a little bit so I could get myself to the hospital.
My pregnancy tests had already started turning negative, even though they'd been positive the night before. The realisation that you can go from being pregnant to not being pregnant without ever meeting your baby is Sobering. I like to compare it to that moment in Harry Potter when Harry starts seeing the Thestrals that had always been there, because the veil had been lifted after he'd witnessed someone die.
The veil had been lifted on miscarriage, for me, anyway. The majority of people couldn't see it, didn't know it, didn't feel it, had no true understanding that it was even a potential danger, but that danger was there anyway. Invisible to the eyes of those who'd never experienced it, but so, so visible to those who had.
When I got to the hospital, I was seen by a female doctor. She told me I wasn't pregnant, I'd never been pregnant, and she tried to send me home with nothing. Now, I knew she was wrong, but I didn't have the energy to advocate for myself the way most women usually have to with doctors. So, I just asked for strong painkillers, she gave them to me, and I went straight home.
I eventually passed the fetus. And a few weeks later, when I was feeling better, I went to see my GP who did confirm my miscarriage. And a few years later, when I was giving birth to my oldest son, my then doctor, who I hadn't actually told about my miscarriage at that point, asked me if I'd ever had an abortion.
No, I told her, not realizing that a miscarriage is referred to medically as an abortion. Well, what about a miscarriage? She clarified. Yeah, I've had a miscarriage. Well, what kind of aftercare did you get? None, I told her. My doctor didn't even believe I was miscarrying. The doctor in front of me then went on to tell me she was concerned because she had essentially discovered dead fetal tissue in my bloodstream from the miscarriage that happened years before.
The one my previous doctor said wasn't even happening. I didn't understand what that meant, or how that could be possible. But I knew. I was livid. I knew that the doctor not listening to me, not believing me, had put me in danger. And I knew that women tend not to be heard by medical experts, especially Black women.
In fact, according to the CDC, Black women are three times more likely to die from a pregnancy related cause than white women. All this to say, I feel rage, disappointment, fear, whenever I hear about the general treatment of women patients in the medical sphere.
And so, when I heard my friend Martha Bernard Ray give a TEDx talk about how her ADHD wasn't even diagnosed until she was 39 years old primarily because the medical field doesn't recognize or acknowledge the signs of ADHD and autism in girls and women as well as it does in boys and men, well, I had to talk to her.
Martha has had to re learn how to run her entire life and business as someone living with both ADHD and autism. 1.6 million people loved listening to Martha's Tedex talk on YouTube, and I know you're gonna love hearing what she has to say today.
Martha Barnard-Rae: it was just a real personal feeling of overwhelm.
And overwhelmed by the like, oh, you know, where was I at with this client? Like they responded What what's the last thing that happened? Like what am I? Where am I at with this? Like, oh god I haven't responded to this person or this person hasn't gotten back to me for feedback and all of these things were just really like
Eman Ismail: Mm
Martha Barnard-Rae: And so I
It just felt really like well Maybe I can't do this job. Maybe I can't run this business
Eman Ismail: On today's show, I'm speaking to Martha Barnard-Rae, TEDx speaker, the CEO of Word Candy, and the co host of the One That Works For You podcast about her biggest business mistake, holding herself to neurotypical standards as a neurodivergent person who's running a business with ADHD and autism.
Martha Barnard-Rae: So instead of like pushing myself to do this business and this life, the way I've been taught to do it and the way like we're all taught to do it, I'm just trying to like listen to the way that I feel and, the way the things that my body's doing and then just like rest if I feel bad which is like it's revolutionary.
Eman Ismail: Welcome to Mistakes That Made Me the podcast that asks extraordinary business owners to share their biggest business mistake so you know what not to do on your road to success. Mistakes That Made Me is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. My name's Eman Ismail and I'm an email strategist and copywriter for online business owners like you at Emancopyco.Com, I'm a podcast lover, a pizza binger, a proud mama of two, and I have this radical idea that if maybe us business owners were a little less guarded and a lot more open about the mistakes we've made, we could help each other grow a business that brings us more joy and less regret.
Eman Ismail: Creator Science is one of my favorite podcasts. It's hosted by Jay Klaus and is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. This is the podcast where Jay goes behind the scenes and interviews top creators and business owners. People like James Clear, Tory Dunlap, and Amy Porterfield too.
I've just finished listening to episode 210, New Fatherhood and my next product with Justin Moore where Jay basically talks about his experience of transitioning from being a business owner to being a business owner. isn't apparent to being one who is. It's a really great episode and I cannot recommend this podcast enough.
Listen to Creator Science wherever you get your podcasts.
Martha Barnard-Rae: My name is Martha Barnard-Rae and I'm a copywriter. So I help people communicate with their ideal customers and engage with them, get them on side and you know, just get in touch with them in the way that forms that relationship and, and a long lasting connection, hopefully.
Eman Ismail: Brilliant. so I was just listening to your TEDx talk, your infamous TEDx talk. And it's not the first time I've listened to it. I listened to it back when you first did it in what year was it?
Martha Barnard-Rae: think I did it in 2021.
Eman Ismail: 2022.
Martha Barnard-Rae: Uh, or no, 2022. I think I did it in 22. Yeah. In January.
Eman Ismail: So I remember where I was when I was listening to your talk. my son was under one, and I was sat on a bench, I'd gone for a walk with him, I'd sat on a bench with him, and I remember him sleeping in his, pram and me looking out at the water and just listening and being so touched by it.
So tell us about this TEDx talk. Tell us what it was about and also how it came about.
Martha Barnard-Rae: Sure. the TEDx talk, it has sort of two different names. the thing that I named it was you're wrong about ADHD. And then when they put it up on YouTube, they put it up as I think ADHD and women and girls, but it's basically, There's a lot of talk, about ADHD at the moment. And this sort of my diagnosis happened kind of just a little bit before the big kind of rush of people learning about ADHD.
And I just really didn't understand, like as a former teacher, I realized how little I actually knew about ADHD. and like even as a teacher who was like very willing to accommodate for my students that had ADHD, like I just thought that like if they, if a person with ADHD took their medication, then they could like quote unquote function like a quote unquote normal person.
I didn't understand executive function, which is like, you know, this vast array of. Jobs that your brain has to do and how ADHD affects people's ability to do that in, in such a way that like, you know, it can, it can be debilitating for some people. and so I really wanted to kind of talk about the differences in ADHD in women and girls.
and so a friend of mine got the license for TEDxKinJarling, which is, where we live way down here on the south coast of Western Australia. and I was like, do you think I should apply? I don't know. And she was like, yes. So I did. And I, I don't know, I kind of. I kind of thought on the day, like, oh, that went well.
and I don't know if I expected it to be as popular as it has been, but like, kind of secretly, like, I kind of thought it was pretty good. So, I was like, I mean, I feel like people are gonna like it. so yeah, it just kind of goes into, you know, some crazy things like the fact that like women weren't even included, girls and women weren't even included in ADHD studies regularly until like the early 2000s.
or it could be 1997. I don't want to be like the bearer of bad facts, but it's, you know, it's not, it was not a regular thing. and that there was a lot of research into like how ADHD affected young boys and then this like great, misunderstanding that ADHD is something that you grow out of. so that was kind of what I wanted to talk about and, and in my case, like, I was like fine, you know, I thought I was fine until I had my second child.
And like, what happens is if you are like a high achieving person who has ADHD, you just have these like things that you put in place to help you work around the executive function deficits that you have. And like, those can work really well. And then like, once they stop working and like the demands that are placed on you become too great for those strategies to work, like it just, everything falls apart and you are sort of.
You know, there's no, I remember just always being like, I just need to do X and then I'll be fine. I just need to do this and then I'll be fine. But it's like, no, I just need you to be diagnosed with like a lifelong neurological condition. And I need to acknowledge that and I need to like act accordingly.
And then. I will be fine, or better, more fine than I am now.
Eman Ismail: So the stereotype is that ADHD, and I guess the traditional stereotype, I hope, I think, I hope we're growing out of this, this traditional stereotype is that ADHD is something that only affects boys, and that, makes them distracted and unable to perform well academically. And so what you're saying is, I mean, you're very highly educated.
You'd come up with these systems and processes to allow you to, to manage it up until that point. And then having kids was the moment that it was just like, okay, this isn't going to work
Martha Barnard-Rae: Yeah, like I, so we live, I, I always like to tell people, like, we live 400 kilometers south of the world's most isolated city. Right. So if you Perth, Western Australia is the world's most isolated city. And then we live like way down the coast from there. And my husband is what's called the community paramedic.
So there are volunteer ambulance officers in regional Australia, and he is not a volunteer, but he's a paramedic and he trains the volunteers and supports them and then goes to like the really bad accidents and so that job is like very all over the place. So it's, there's like nights that he's going to be out and, but there's no real, like schedule or roster.
It's just really all over the place. And then I was working as a teacher at the time and the school that I was working at was 50 kilometers away. So like 45 minutes away and then like, you know, teaching all day. And then I would get home and like, I just had nothing left. to give my own kids. And then I, I had to like make food.
I'm just like, what? Like it was just really, really hard. And that's why I started my business. I wanted to do something else and something that sort of made more sense to me. But it was also that thing of like, this is so like, I don't think life is supposed to be this hard. And it wasn't until I was like working full time in my business at the beginning of 2020.
That I was talking to a doctor who's sort of like a family friend. About this like ongoing stomach issue that I had had and he said, Oh, I don't know, just like make an appointment with me. I don't know. I'm a doctor. Maybe I can help and I was like great and so like privilege like this is the thing that like is the key to my whole TEDx talk is that even like I have had a, you know, very comfortable upbringing and I had parents that supported me and could afford to sort things out and I have friends that are doctors who can help me when I have ADHD and it still took me 39 years to realize that I have ADHD.
And so like, it just means that for people that have different sort of levels of access to things and ability to understand what's going on, and it would be just so much harder, right? It's that, you know, that intersectional thing, the more intersections you're kind of meeting at, the more difficult it is to get good medical care.
The more difficult it is to get anything basically. So my point in my Ted talk was like. If it takes me 39 years to get diagnosed, like, what is happening with, you know, people on the margins?
Eman Ismail: Wow.
Okay. I have so much that I want to add to that. And I also want to explain to you why your TED talk was so touching, but before I do, just so people are understanding the impact that this TEDx talk had. It's currently on 1. 4 million views.
It has nearly 2, 500 comments. Some of those comments include people saying things like the part where she says, I'm not a bad woman, I'm not a bad mother. And it's not a matter of just trying harder or however she says it brought me to tears because I felt fully seen for the first time in a long time.
Somebody else commented the post for help memorizing the note cards, the note cards on the floor, the shuffling of the cards on the floor. This is what we need. Someone like us on a big, highly respected stage. Someone who speaks eloquently, but still struggles. First time I've ever seen me on a stage.
Amazing. And just reading some of those comments was so touching. What was the impact that this talk had on you and your life, if any?
Martha Barnard-Rae: Well, I mean, it definitely has opened some doors in terms of like getting speaking engagements and sort of getting a bigger profile in that that kind of circle. And I've had yeah, I've done some like pretty cool speaking engagements, but I do again. I live very far from the whole wide world. So It's tricky to to get That to a lot of those things but I think after it first came out and I would like see people in the street, like I play the part of like a very confident, self assured person. And what I have realized since I was diagnosed was like a lot of that is just masking. Like I've just been pretending that like I'm very comfortable talking to whoever and like I'm very Like, I thought that, like, small talk was easy for me, but it isn't. And, like, relationships, friendships are difficult for me, but I just had, like, gaslit myself, and I've been like, no, you're really good at this, like, that's something you're really good at, and it takes zero effort.
So, like, what I noticed was when I started talking openly about ADHD, I got actually more self conscious. Because I would forget things, like, you know, constantly or whatever kind of thing that happens in a conversation. And immediately after people had seen the talk, I was like, Oh, I'm, I feel like they're spotting it.
Like, I feel like they're going, Oh, that's what she's talking about. That's it kind of thing. Because people just love to be like, well, I forget my keys all the time. And it's like, having ADHD is not about forgetting your keys. Like, it's not about like, being forgetful. It's about having this like real deficit in executive function, which is like really important things like task initiation, task completion, prioritization, emotional regulation is an executive function.
So there's all of these really important things. And you have a deficit to the point, like right now I have completely forgotten what I'm talking about.
Eman Ismail: That's okay. I have so much to say.
Martha Barnard-Rae: yeah, it's, I, I got it. So it's like, It's this deficit in executive function and the associated lifelong shame and hypervigilance that goes along with it.
So if you make a mistake, it's not like, Oh, oops, this happened. It's like, oops, this happened. You idiot. Like you always do this. Of course this happened because you always mess things up. You always like, things like I, you know, if I knew that I was like, I used to teach and say I had a class on Thursday at like 1:15. For weeks, I could be like, my class is on Thursday at 1:15, my class is on Thursday at 1:15 and I get there and I do a great job and then at the time just changes in my brain like, it's like the class is at 1:45 and like, you cannot tell my brain otherwise.
And like, it hasn't changed in real life, so you're just like, I'm a professional grown up, and you're just like, being a professional grown up, and then all of a sudden it's like, why can I not tell time? Like, why can everybody else go to the grocery store, buy the things that they need for the week, and then come home and not be like, shattered by that experience? And then it's that, that shame piece of like, if I was a better grownup, I could do this.
Eman Ismail: I think it's really interesting what you said around having that internal voice of like, Of, of not being kind to yourself, of it becoming part of like, who you are, like, why do I always do this? You're an, I'm an idiot. I, I, I can't, you know, remember this and I can't do that. And, and, it reminds me of someone that I know who has undiagnosed ADHD because they won't get diagnosed, but they absolutely have ADHD and, and that childhood was, was their parent saying things like that to them and then being, you know, branded as a child as clumsy, forgetful. Basically like useless type of thing.
Like you don't remember it. You don't do anything, right? You do I don't you don't you know what I mean? And it was just and it's so I mean that's abusive And I can't imagine you feeling that about yourself, number one,
Martha Barnard-Rae: mm
Eman Ismail: um, and feeling that into adulthood and not understanding why or the bigger picture and not having that diagnosis, but then also being told that from other people, especially your parents.
And the reason your talk touched me so much, the first time I listened to it, I remember like tearing up because it was just such a beautiful talk and, I feel like I, I felt a lot of empathy for you through what you were telling me. And then, and, and it was actually your talk that made me realize that I have a few really close family members who 100 percent I have ADHD, 100 percent to the point that I then had conversations with these people and said, Hey, pretty sure you have ADHD.
Like, are you open to go in and getting it diagnosed type of thing? And people are on like their own journeys regarding that. And so, I have, I have like, I have one family member who's in the middle of, of getting it, is in the middle of the whole process of getting diagnosed. Another one who refuses to, but acknowledges that they, they clearly do have it.
But what it did is it gave me a greater understanding of, of these people. It gave me the ability to be more patient with them, to be more understanding, to be more empathetic. And so the second time I listened to your talk this morning, I got teary because I, I understood it so much more. and I see people that I love struggling with this on a daily basis.
So, and also actually, it also impacts me. Their struggle impacts me and my life and my ability to try and manage my life because when they're struggling to manage theirs, it, it's, it has a direct effect on me. And then I struggled to manage mine, you know? And so,
Martha Barnard-Rae: Totally.
Eman Ismail: And so, yeah, I mean, it, it, it was, yeah, your talk, your talk was amazing.
And it opened a lot of conversations up for me with my family members. And, yeah, Yeah, I guess I just want you to know that. It was that powerful. Yeah.
Martha Barnard-Rae: a real, there's a lot of internalized ableism, right? That kind of like, so after I had my first child, I was diagnosed with anxiety because I was like a woman with a baby and they're like, she obviously has anxiety. And so I was like, okay, I'm fine with having anxiety. That's fine. I can take medication for that.
But I, then I found out I had ADHD. And I take three or four different medications for that. And I grew up in like a household where my dad was like vice president of a drug company, right? Like there was no shame about going to the doctor, you know, there's always going to be a solution. Just go, go, go, keep pushing until you get what you, what, you know, helps.
But I was like, I'm fine with having to take like one or two medications, but if I have to take like three or four, I had a really big block about that because it's like, I shouldn't need that many medications. Like what's wrong with me? And, and so all of that sort of reluctance can be based in, you know, a, a person doesn't understand the extent to which ADHD can affect their life.
And so they think, well, no, ADHD is just like hyper little boys. It's not me, but also like, I don't want to be a person who has ADHD. I don't want to need that kind of support. I don't want to need accommodations. I don't want to ask that of my employer or my friends. Like I just want to try and keep over performing until I can behave like quote unquote, like properly. And that is where you get into deep, deep burnout because you just can't, you know, sometimes you can, you can, you know, really perform at like whatever high level that you think you should, but then there's just going to be other times where like, you just can't. And that's my kind of like journey that I'm on right now is like trying to accept that. Because for a long time I was like, I'm gonna have the type of ADHD where you can like go and do a TEDx talk and everyone thinks you're great. But then I didn't want any of the awful parts of ADHD because it's like more awful than good.
Everybody says it's a superpower, which is false.
Eman Ismail: You
Martha Barnard-Rae: not.
Eman Ismail: Well, it's that story that you tell in your TEDx talk about losing the 35 liter tub. So Martha went to a shop. You picked up a 35 litre tub, which is huge, you paid for it, and then you just lost it. You lost it between the shop and the car. You originally thought that you'd just left it in the shop, so you went back to the shop
Martha Barnard-Rae: back to the shop, I said to the man, I left this here. And he was like, okay. And he's like, I just have to get. I just have to look at the security camera. So like when my boss asks me why I gave you another tub, like, you know, I'll be able to say, oh, she left it. And he was gone for ages and he came back and he was really embarrassed.
And he was like, I'm so sorry, but we have like footage of you leaving with the tub. Like, and I was like, well, where is it? And he's like, I don't know. Hmm. Hmm.
Eman Ismail: know, this is a funny story. But it's actually not, it's a very real, very real representation of what daily life is, is like for you and the frustration, and I know this because I've seen this in my family, the frustration of, of losing things all the time and not being able to keep track of things, and because it's, it's not just the one off, it's, it's constant and then it's, it's There's the ADHD tax, which I know very well of the time that you spend looking for all the things you lose and then the money that you spend replacing all the things that you lose because it's so just hard to keep track and it's just, there's just so much forgetting of these things.
I mean, I could just tell you so many stories. So when I was listening to your TEDx talk and you know, the audience was laughing and I'm just thinking, this is. It's just so not funny. I, it's, you told it really funny. So it was funny, but it's just so not funny.
Martha Barnard-Rae: Devastating. And like, to your point previously, if you grew up with parents who were like, Oh, you're such an idiot. Like you lose things all the time. Why can't you hang on to your belongings? Like you can't be so careless and blah, blah, blah. And then stuff like that happens. It's like, Oh, they were right.
You know, all my teachers, my parents were right. And like, I did fine in school. I didn't have teachers that was telling me, teachers that were telling me that I was like a piece of garbage. And I didn't have parents that were telling me that I was a piece of garbage, but like, that the ADHD is a set of traits and it's either exacerbated or like supported by the environment that you live in, that you grow up in as a kid.
So if you're like scared and hungry and like in fight or flight and there's no routine and you don't know what's going to happen, you really, like, your, those traits are exacerbated, right? And I grew up in a very stable home with very, you know, predictable things going on. And when I was struggling with something, it was like, okay, well, like, let's figure out a solution.
It wasn't like, well, you're obviously an idiot. And, and so, so. About like, you were talking about the comments on the TEDx talk, but some of them are heartbreaking, like there's one that's like This woman owns a business and has a family and like I can't even leave the house It's not fair. And those are the things that I'm like, Oh, like, it's so heartbreaking because like my psychiatrist has told me that when somebody comes in with ADHD, he's actually pleased because it's like one of the only mental health conditions that has like good outcomes they can, you can really have.
You know, there's a treatment and there's a treatment that works. And like, it's not that like, you know, when you start taking medication, all of a sudden, all your problems are gone, there are things that you can do to make your life easier and, and ADHD is treatable, but it's just so crushing if you have just been told that you're like a piece of crap for your whole life, and then you lose the 35 liter tub and you're like, you know what, I am a piece of crap, like that just proves it.
Eman Ismail: Gosh. And the process of getting diagnosed is so lengthy and also so expensive in some places that, that is almost, I saw, I saw a tweet or something one time where someone said, they should make part of the test of, being diagnosed with ADHD, like part of the ADHD assessment, whether you can even finish the assessment, whether you finish the assessment.
And, Yeah, me and my family member had a really good laugh at that because they started the assessment and it, it was just, it was unfinished because it was, it was, it's a lot, it's a lot for a person without ADHD, let alone expecting a person with ADHD to do all, to do all that.
Martha Barnard-Rae: It's all executive functioning. Like, and it's really interesting because there's apparently in Australia where I live, there's like funding if you are in a job or if you own a business and your ADHD is affecting your ability to work. So I was like, Oh, cool. You can get like funding to get coaching.
So I was like, Oh, cool. I'm going to look into this. And then I filled in the form and the thing that they sent back to like demonstrate how much you need this funding. Like it was ridiculous to the point that I called the government agency and I was like, it is clear to me that you do not want to give this funding to anybody.
Eman Ismail: Wow.
Martha Barnard-Rae: you want to be able to say, well no one applied. But it's like you are literally asking a person with ADHD to like prove how disabled they are. Through this like ridiculously over the top demonstration. But like if I have ADHD, I have ADHD.
Like that. If you're giving funding for ADHD. Just give it to people who have a diagnosis like it was just so ridiculous. So yeah, I understand that
Eman Ismail: no
Martha Barnard-Rae: whole thing. It's crazy
Eman Ismail: Yes.
Okay. So now that we have like the background of you, your ADHD, how you've kind of struggled with that, let's go into what you're here for. Okay. You ready?
Martha Barnard-Rae: Yeah.
Stick around. Don't go anywhere. We'll get right back to this episode after this quick break.
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Eman Ismail: Okay. Martha, what is the mistake that made you?
Martha Barnard-Rae: The mistake that made me is holding myself to neurotypical standards as a neurodivergent person.
Okay. So tell us what that means.So like in addition to being diagnosed with ADHD, I was also diagnosed with autism last year. I got diagnosed on the same day as my son. So we had a little Cake that said Autism on it. So that was pretty exciting, but it means like there are all kinds of societal standards. Like, so let's just talk about, work at the moment.
Okay. In my head, because I'm a high achieving person, I'm like, okay, I should be able to do X hours of paid client work a week, which means that I should be able to do this and have these outcomes and like the, this is the plan. Right. and I can't actually do that because if I have like a really busy, full, productive day and I'm in like hyper focus and I get 47 million things done, the next day is like, definitely I can't do anything.
Right. So there's the, the ebb and flow of your inner resources, or like your capabilities on a given day, it just changes day to day. And so instead of kind of looking at my business and going, I'm going to run my business the way everybody else runs their freelance copywriting business. I made it sort of work for me.
And the way that I did that, you're not going to believe this, Iman. I took this amazing masterclass. I don't know if you've heard, it was like, sell your VIP service, and you were the presenter, and it was so wonderful. yeah, but that,
Eman Ismail: was, that was design your VIP week and it's my two and a half hour masterclass, which I just updated by the way. And, it basically teaches you how to do, my VIP week. So how to design and sell your own VIP week. And it's for service providers and consultants who for whatever reason, just want to work in a more like contained period of time.
But don't want to do like the traditional VIP day because like me as a parent, I could never do a VIP day because I don't know what my day is going to look like. As you're saying with ADHD, you don't know what your day is going to look like.
Martha Barnard-Rae: Yeah. And so as a parent and as a neurodivergent person, I don't know what my energy levels, I don't know what my inner resources are going to be on a given day. Right. So you're doing your VIP week class was very helpful because like, as a copywriter, when you're just doing it the normal way, there's not really any deadlines, which means there's no dopamine, which means like there's no urgency to get anything done.
Like there's all these like dates that I said, I'm going to do something, but like, everybody knows I just made that date up. Like it's not a real deadline. So that that was really helpful. But so kind of forming my work in a way that like works for my brain, sort of on the on the work front, but then like on the personal front, sort of understanding that the way my brain works affects every aspect of my life.
So, like, people get a lot of shit online because they're like, you're making, like, ADHD or autism your whole personality. And it's like, but it is. It is in me, so it affects the way I communicate, it affects the way I have friendships, it affects the way, like, my relationship with food, it affects the way I, like, plan, it affects everything.
And so, instead of just, like, pretending that I'm fine and that I can do everything, you know, the right way and the way everybody else does, like, I'm kind of just embracing the fact that, like, sometimes I can't and I have to either do something in a different way or just like not do that thing and, and really, it sounds really like not life changing, but when you kind of go, okay, I have this, this disability, that means that I cannot regulate my My focus, like I pay attention to too many things, not too few things.
And so that means that like, if there's like a lot of loud noises, I get really distressed. If the lights are bright, it messes me up. Like textures, all this stuff that has always bothered me. But I was just like, you just push through. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. I'm kind of at the point where I'm like, well, no, I'm going to like design my work and to an extent my life around like these things that I know, you know, deplete my inner resources and, and try and like limit that so that I have more resources for the things that I want to be doing.
Eman Ismail: Okay. I'm going to ask you about what exactly you did in a minute, but I would love to know when you look back, were there any situations or examples of, of cases where you trying to do your business a certain way that just wasn't working for you and your brain where it caused any issues? For you, for your clients even, what kind of kind of day to day stuff did it bring up? Mm hmm,
Martha Barnard-Rae: It's really interesting because the shame, like the potential of being like caught out. And the shame associated with that are very powerful, right? So I just want to preface this, like when I was getting diagnosed, my doctor wrote to the psychiatrist and he said, and I always remember these lines because it felt very empowering.
Through sheer force of will, Martha got an honors degree in English and a master's degree in education because I was just like, well, I'm not, not going to finish. Like, so the, the shame of like not being able to do a thing is so overwhelming that you like push through any of the sort of discomfort.
So I used to have a business partner. And it was such an amazing way to start a business because she'd been a copywriter for like 25 years and just really knew what she was talking about. And she, we like had such a good dynamic, but she was able to just like sit down and work for like eight hours.
And I was like, I want to do this work. I need to do these things. I have the skills to do it.you know, I have motivation to do it. I can't like, I can't start it. Or, I can't, I don't know, it's, and then, like, you sort of sit down and you do 500 other things, and so, but because you haven't done, like, that one main thing that you're, like, quote unquote supposed to be doing in that day, you feel like a big failure.
And it was right at the beginning of 2020 when like everybody was starting to work from home. And everybody was like joking about how hard it is to work from home. And I was like, yeah, it really is hard to work from home. But it was like, it was impossible for me. I just like you, you, executive function is like, you want to do something and you know, you like, you know how, and you have all the tools, but you can't.
And so that results in things getting too close to the deadline, feeling stressed. I was literally like, well, maybe this business isn't what I'm supposed to be doing. And that was really crushing. Cause I had like quit my teaching job and I loved my business, but I was, I knew I was really good at copywriting, but I was like, well, I can't do this.
Like I have these like three things on my list to do today and I cannot do them. It just made me feel like such a loser. And I would go and talk to Beck, my business partner. And I went, cause I get really teary when I sort of, when this kind of happens, cause you just feel like the biggest, like piece of shit in the world.
And she was like, you're amazing. Like, you're so good at this. And, but she didn't know kind of what to say either. And so. It was, I got diagnosed like close enough to when I started the business that like, it wasn't a big disaster. you know, I didn't lose a huge amount of money or anything, but it was just a real personal feeling of overwhelm.
And You know overwhelmed by the like, oh, you know, where was I at with this client? Like they responded What what's the last thing that happened? Like what am I? Where am I at with this? Like, oh god I haven't responded to this person or this person hasn't gotten back to me for feedback and all of these things were just really like
Eman Ismail: Mm
Martha Barnard-Rae: And so I I had no way of I don't know.
It just felt really like well Maybe I can't do this job. Maybe I can't run this business.
Eman Ismail: Gosh, okay. So it sounds like your business partner was really supportive. My next question was gonna be, did that, did it cause any tension between you two? Because I know, like you said, ADHD can make it difficult with your relationships, with your friendships, with maintaining friendships, and also people on the other side not understanding and just kind of like losing patience basically.
Martha Barnard-Rae: But also like there's something in ADHD called rejection sensitive dysphoria, which is where you're like, you know,exquisitely sensitive to rejection. And so your whole, I just always wanted to be saying to Beck, like, I'm so happy we're doing this. I'm so like, I can't, I love our business so much and like, I love how we work together and I, and, and so I'm always wanting to like, make sure the other person knows that like, you know, and if I forget something, it's not because I don't like love our business.
I'm just like, I just find it really hard. So we people with ADHD can kind of like combust themselves by like stressing so much about like what could happen or like, how someone's taking something that they said, or, you know, coming home from like a social thing or like a networking thing. I'm being like, Oh my God, you know, I, before I go to a networking thing, I'm like, okay, don't be too weird. Like, don't talk about this, you know, all this kind of like prepping. But then after that thing, you're like, I should do it. Should I have said that? What did I say? Why did I do that? Da, da, da, da. So you just spend so much time. stressing about like things that you did or things that you didn't do and that like, it interferes with like, a normal exchange of like working together communication because you're just always hypervigilant about like, basically, are you mad at me?
And, and rejection sensitive dysphoria is like, it's a real thing. And, when the rejection happens or even the perceived rejection happens, it's like, yep, see, I knew it, like, this is because I'm like, a bad person, or, you know, I always say a piece of shit, I don't know if we're allowed to swear on this
Eman Ismail: Go ahead.
Martha Barnard-Rae: already said shit like four times, but it's like, yeah, see, I knew it, I'm a piece of shit, and you get, it's, it's that kind of like the self fulfilling prophecy.
Eman Ismail: Okay. Now I'm amazed because I feel likethere's nothing that brings rejection more than having a business. So then how do you deal with that as a business owner and facing rejection constantly?
Martha Barnard-Rae: It doesn't, I don't know. I like, I feel like when somebody say I do a proposal and the person doesn't accept it, I'm just like, Oh, that's not about me. That's about them. Like, I'm like, obviously they don't have enough money to do this, or obviously something, something, something, but that has been a, like a, a learning process.
And that would be like with anybody that had a business, right? You have to kind of get used to the fact that people aren't going to like the stuff that you do. But I, like, I'm very confident about some parts of my, like, life, my personality, my work. And then I'm, like, deeply insecure about other things.
But the things that I'm confident about are, like, I know I'm a good writer. Like, I know I have a great website. I know I come across great on the phone. I know, you know, so that stuff, I'm like, that's helpful. I know that I can, like, ingratiate myself to somebody and like find a connection point. So like, if they then decide that like, I'm not for them, I'm like, okay, that's like a you problem.
Eman Ismail: Yeah. Okay. Good. And yes, your website is absolutely fantastic. I remember when you launched it and being amazed. I was like, wow, it's gorgeous. Okay. So let's move on to the next part of this.
How did this mistake make you?
Martha Barnard-Rae: Can I answer this question in two parts?
Eman Ismail: Absolutely.
Martha Barnard-Rae: Okay, just remind me that I'm answering this question in two parts once I get to the end of the first part, because I will not remember. But the two parts are, like, my family and my work.
Eman Ismail: Okay.
Martha Barnard-Rae: So the first one is like I have two neurodivergent children and I have very high expectations for myself and I have very high expectations for them and what this process has taught me is like all of those things that I thought were so important and like anybody that has a child is going to have their own little thing, but like we're gonna eat dinner together every night We're gonna like do all these like family outings and we're just gonna have we're gonna be making memories It's gonna be so charming and our house is always gonna be tidy and clean and everything's gonna blah blah blah Like that stuff My youngest child is the like quote unquote typical hyperactive child with ADHD.
They also, like, they just cannot sit still. So, like, the only way we can get them to eat dinner is, like, with headphones on and, like, listening to music or, like, walking around the house. And, like, it has just allowed me to, like, let go of a lot of like the rules that I had for parenting and, and for like, what I wanted my children to be like, and actually accept the children that I have.
And I think that's a really difficult thing for, for people to do because as like people that are having children, we really do have this idea of like, this is what it's going to be like. I'm going to be this type of parent, you know, we're not going to do this. We are going to do this, you know, and there's gonna, there's all these kind of like expectations and you have to actually parent the kid that you get.
Eman Ismail: hmm.
Martha Barnard-Rae: and, and it's really interesting because my youngest the other day said to me, they were like crying because they didn't want to go to school. And like, my mom was a principal. I used to be a teacher. Like you do not stay home from school unless you're like dying. And my child said, mom, can I please have a home day?
And I was like, part of me was like, absolutely not like no way. And then they said, I never get to have a home day unless I'm sick. And I was like, Oh yeah, that is stupid. Like you just want to have a day at home. And like, I work from home and you're old enough. Like I have this amazing privilege where like, if you do need a home day, you can have a home day.
And like, so I'm, I've kind of learned to like listen to what my kids need and try and make those things happen rather than like making my own expectations for them real.
Eman Ismail: mhm,
Martha Barnard-Rae: So that's sort of like how it has affected me on like a family level. But on a work level, it has just allowed me to create a way of working that suits my brain. Having said that like I'm still You know, if I, I don't want to like talk about ADHD so much that clients are like, Oh, well I don't really want to hire her because like, what if she's having like a low capacity day and she's not doing her best on my work or whatever, but like, so there's still, it's not like I'm just like free and easy, whatever happens happens.
But like getting to the point where like, I know, you know, this is when I'm roughly going to do this brief. This is what I'm going to start. You need to have this done by this time. So that's dopamine. And that allows me to like feel some urgency and get things done. so the kind of structure of the business, like essentially your course changed, like my entire business and the way that I, like, I started selling the VIP weeks and I was like, oh my God, I never want to work in the normal way again.
And then my amazing business strategist who like, oh my God, you would love her so much. She was like, well, if that's how you like to work, just. work like that. And I was like, can I do that? She's like, yeah, you can do whatever you want. And so it's that kind of like, Oh, okay. I can, I can have like a calendar month and I can have two or three VIP weeks and like schedule a buffer week because I know I'm going to need some kind of like time to recuperate.
And, and that's sort of, how it has, it has changed the way that I work. So instead of like pushing myself to do this business and this life, the way I've been taught to do it and the way like we're all taught to do it, I'm just trying to like listen to the way that I feel and, the way the things that my body's doing and then just like rest if I feel bad which is like it's revolutionary right like to just be like what are you doing I'm resting like that's just not something that was a thing in my house growing up like I have a very like productive, successful mother.
And it's like, she's not like having a nap.so it's so kind of, yeah, kind of like going, okay, why do I feel crazy? What is going on? And then trying to go, okay, what can I let go of here that is gonna let me feel like a little bit more calm and grounded. And like letting go of that thing without the deciding that that makes me like the biggest loser in the world.
Eman Ismail: I mean, that's amazing. First of all, my mom's also an educator and has been in education for, I mean, I think she started the year I was born. So 32 years. and so I definitely know what it's like to be raised by an educator and the relationship you then have with education yourself. And when you were talking about absences and, you know, staying home from school and stuff, I had this like sudden memory of the fact that I, for my entire five years at high school, specifically, I never took a sick day. I never took a sick day for five years.
Martha Barnard-Rae: you know what that would be like, your school would have been would have given you an
Eman Ismail: Oh yeah. Award certificates. And it's only now as an adult that I think, Oh, how, how damaging is that? And it wasn't that I was never sick. I would go to school sick just to be sat in my classes. And, and so now when my son, I've had that same conversation with my son and he's just said, I'm, I'm tired.
I'm really tired. I just need a day off. And I'm like, okay. Okay. Because for me that like, when you get to that point where you're tired, you may as well be sick, like you need the day off. Your mental health is just as important as your physical health. And so it's, it's a very different way to how I was raised.
Definitely. And yeah, I mean, I just, I just look back on like, how old would I have been 11 to 16 year old me and just think, oh, I just need a day off. And then I remember I got to college at one point. I mean, this is slightly going off topic, but I remember going to college, going to college and there was, Just there was one week where I was just really down and I was like I'm so done with this 100 percent attendance record thing. Like I'm so done. I just I need I need some time off and I took like three days off and just stayed home, which was unheard of. Like people would have been like, are you okay? Like are you are you okay Eman because this is not you.
And and I just I felt so much better after it. So it is that listening to what you need, listen to what your kids need. I mean, I think I'm more educated on neuro divergence now as well. I don't, I don't know everything.
There's still so much for me to learn. I didn't know what you told me about ADHD, rejection sensitivity.
Martha Barnard-Rae: Yeah.
Eman Ismail: Was it, was it not disorder? You said
Martha Barnard-Rae: Rejection sensitive dysphoria.
Eman Ismail: dysphoria. Thank you. And I wrote it down because again, that's something else I see in my family members. And so Yeah. I mean, I, I think for someone who's like on the outside of this, who's kind of watching people struggling with it.
I guess I just have to learn. I just have to learn and understand what I can do to help. And it's funny because I, I used to say things like, and don't hate me please, but I used to say things like, well, okay, let me, let's put it in your calendar. And then they'd be like, Yeah. Well, okay. And then we put it in the calendar and then it would just like, nothing would ever happen.
Yeah. Yeah. And then they'd be like, no, you don't, you don't, they'd say, you know, you don't get it. You can put it in my calendar. It's still, it doesn't help me because then I forget to look at the calendar. I forget the calendar even exists. So the calendar doesn't exist. Like you can put as many things as you want in the calendar, you know?
And so I, I thought I was helping. And I just wasn't. So it's really
Martha Barnard-Rae: and like, yeah
Eman Ismail: helped yourself.
Martha Barnard-Rae: Neurotypical people be like, have you tried making a list? Someone's like, oh my god, a list? What an amazing idea. Have you tried setting a timer?
Eman Ismail: Oh
Martha Barnard-Rae: Oh my god, no, I've never thought of that. Thank you so much. You have cured my ADHD.
Eman Ismail: I never, yeah, I
Martha Barnard-Rae: But you know what? You know what's really interesting? Like my husband, so if I wasn't married to the person that I am married to, the wheels would have fallen off much earlier because we have an equal relationship.
Where, like, we each do the things that we're good at. And it's not like you do this because you're the man, you do this because you're the woman. We have an equal relationship, if not a little bit like he does more than me. But he, You know, when I first got diagnosed, I was like, Oh, do you feel like you've got like a raw deal?
Like you married like a dud wife. And he was like, well, no, he goes, first of all, no, like you've always been like this. I love you. I fell in love with you like this. It's not like this just got turned on when you got diagnosed, but also understanding that I have ADHD made it easier for him because he's like, you know, sometimes I was like, has she just left that there for me on purpose because she knows I'm going to do it?
And like, he would get a bit resentful. And now he's like, I know that there is no ill will in anything that you forget to do. Like, if he walks into the kitchen and all the cupboards are open and like, all of the stuff from my lunch is out, it's not because I don't respect the house or, you know, because I don't care that he's going to come in and it's going to be messy.
It's that I was doing that thing and I started doing something else and the kitchen has disappeared. from my life and it is just no longer a factor.So it's that like, it allowed him to really understand that there is no ill will behind any of this. And like what you kind of realize when you first get diagnosed or what a lot of people say is like, they realize like, Oh wow, all my friends, a lot of my friends also have this.
And like, I have a best friend who, who has ADHD as well. And I still, you know, like she gets really into what she's doing. And if I've asked a question or whatever, and she hasn't gotten back to me previously, I would have been like, like, am I that small of a priority that like, you can't just answer this question.
But now I'm like, that's, it's not about that. Like, it's not that she doesn't love me, it's not that she disrespects my time, it's not that she doesn't want to make a plan, she's just like otherwise engaged and the way her brain works means it's hard to remember. So it just allows you to give people a bit more grace, I think.
Eman Ismail: Yeah, and like, that really just hits home with me because, again, I know people with ADHD who've lost friendships because the ADHD was undiagnosed and then the person on the other side is thinking, oh, you just don't care. You just don't care. And it's not that at all. It's not that at all.
Martha Barnard-Rae: Um, though, I lost a re a 15 year friendship when I got diagnosed because I like was unmasking and I was like becoming my actual true self and she didn't like it. And we had been fre, we had been best friends for 15 years. And it was like, she was like, I don't like, I don't like this person.
And I was like, whoa, it was really, so that, you know, and, and that, can you imagine with rejection sensitive dysphoria, how dev, like, I, I was devastated by that for longer than I've been devastated by any relationship, like, you know, relationship breakup that I've
Eman Ismail: I was just gonna say, I mean, I've had my fair share of friendship breakups and no one ever really prepares you for it, like people talk about romantic breakups, but there is literally nothing more devastating than the breakup of like a really strong friendship, and the grief, the levels of grief and the stages of grief.
It's just. Yeah, it really really is. And it's funny because these are, these are generally people who, like you said, are with you for so long. And it's like, how does, how does no one prepare you for the breaking up of those relationships? Like, I need, I need you to help me figure that out.
Martha Barnard-Rae: I'm like, she was in my wedding, and she was my only bridesmaid. So I'm like, I don't want to look at my wedding pictures. You know? And like, I'm not saying that, like, I was perfect or, you know, whatever, but like, Wow, that's really, it's really impactful.
Eman Ismail: Yeah, because nothing and no one prepares you for it.
Martha Barnard-Rae: Oh, it's
Eman Ismail: And yeah,it's a big deal cause it's something that you can't, it's not your fault. It's not your fault, you know. You can't change it.
One more thing I just want to ask you is you mentioned a sensitivity to things like light, like, uh, touch, texture, sound, again, all stuff that is very familiar to me that I had no idea was connected to ADHD until recently. And then it's just like, oh my gosh, everything's making sense. Like you're all just like, it's like a jigsaw puzzle, like coming together.
Right. I love the idea of you just deciding to make yourself more comfortable and create the environment that works for you. So what kind of things did you put into place to just be more comfortable?
Martha Barnard-Rae: Well, this is going to sound like I'm the bougiest person in the world, but I'm not. We just built a house. That we have really put some, like, neurodivergent friendly features in, which I feel so, like, lucky to be able to do that. But I don't know if you've ever been to Australia, but the houses are, like, made of matchsticks.
Like they are just crap. There's like gaps under the doors and like people are heating their houses with a fire in the year 2024. Like we're chopping wood and building a fire to keep yourself warm. It's like ridiculous. So we've built a house that's, that has our like flooring has an acoustic layer underneath it.
It's like, Yeah. Double glazed windows are not a thing in Australia. They're like a real like fancy thing. So we got double glazed windows. We got dimmers on all the lights and just like separate zones. So that like when, cause like my kids also both have autism and ADHD. So we all get overstimulated. So just like zones where we can kind of spread out if we need to.
And, and, oh, sorry, that was my dog.
Eman Ismail: It's
Martha Barnard-Rae: decided it's time to leave the room. has helped, but then on like a, I've, I've recently like, stopped wearing uncomfortable pants.so I like bought these pants from Uniqlo that are kind of like knit stretchy. I'll send you the link and they're cute.
Like they look, you can wear them like. dress them up, dress them down. I got four pairs. I'm not wearing anything other than these pants because I'm not like, I just, I can't be like, every bra is so uncomfortable. Every pair of pants is too tight. Like it's all just like, so even like the reason why I have short hair is because long hair is really overwhelming to me, like on a sensory level.
And so, yeah, just having like the house where it's like not quite as loud and I wear like, I wear headphones all the time, which I feel guilty about as a parent, but I'm like, it's not like I'm not going to take them off if you have something to say, but like, so there's all this like guilt underneath. But then I think, no, what, what you're actually doing is like modeling for your kids that like, it's okay to have needs. And that is a really important thing to model. So I can kind of like oscillate on that. But yeah, just trying to like be more cozy. I'm in my cozy era, and my cozy era is also quiet.
Eman Ismail: I love that for
Martha Barnard-Rae: Mm hmm.
Eman Ismail: This conversation has been amazing, Martha. What do you want other people listening to this to, to learn from your mistake? Yeah.
Martha Barnard-Rae: I think like it's very difficult for autistic people and people with neurodivergence to know how they're feeling. Like to actually, I, you know, there's like, they give kids these like things with all the different feelings on them. And it's not a matter of like, I don't know that this is an angry face.
I'm like, this is a happy face, but like in my own body, I don't know if I'm overwhelmed or if I'm angry or if I'm like irritated or if I'm hungry. So it's like the thing that I, that I would really want other people to know is like, if there's any way that you can like tap into how you are actually feeling and like pay attention to it and then like act accordingly, I think that that would be really, even on a societal level, I think that would be really impactful. Like if it was okay for someone to be like, I'm feeling really overwhelmed right now. I can't, I'm feeling elevated. I can't have this meeting. Or I'm feeling this, I need this. And to kind of understand that, like the way that you feel matters, it impacts your interactions with other people and your ability to be productive and whatever.
And also that you can ask for things that make it more comfortable for you, or like make it possible for you to, to meet your obligations or whatever, but that's okay.
Eman Ismail: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I feel like what I have got from this conversation is that it's really the importance of building a business around your needs, like you said, around what you need your business to look like, how you need your business to operate, around how you can and need to operate and not being afraid of building a business that's completely different from the person next to you, because that's just what you need.
Martha Barnard-Rae: Yeah. Yeah. And I, like I, there have been times because I, listener, I had open heart surgery at the end of last year, which is just another cherry on top of this turd cake, but I there was a point during my recovery when I was like, do I not have any capacity? Like I was sort of like anything was making me really overwhelmed or really stressed and i'm like I have to have some . Like, what is it?
But if you have been operating at like a really, just sort of like impossible level for so long, it really takes your nervous system a long time to like, to recalibrate. And, and when you start paying attention to your body and like your needs a little bit more, you start noticing more stuff and you're like, oh my God, like, am I debilitated? But I don't think that that always lasts.
And, and just the idea that like, yeah, just the way that you are on a given day. doesn't say anything about you as a person.
Eman Ismail: Mm hmm.
Martha Barnard-Rae: It doesn't mean, you know, there's no, there's no moral value attached to being the most overfunctioning person in the world. There's no, you know, when you got your award for never missing a day of school, you can't like take that and be like, hey, I never missed a day of school and then someone gives you a million dollars.
Eman Ismail: Mm hmm.
Martha Barnard-Rae: it doesn't mean
Eman Ismail: I'll take the
Martha Barnard-Rae: like you put yourself, you know, through the discomfort for nothing.
Eman Ismail: Yeah.
Martha Barnard-Rae: You know, you would have gotten the same grades if you had stayed home when you were sick. And so that it's that understanding that like, if I work in the way that suits me, you know, provided I'm like meeting deadlines and being, you know, a good business owner and communicating and all that kind of stuff, like the world is not gonna implode if you do things a little bit different and there's no moral value attached to being, over functioning, hyper productive person.
Eman Ismail: When you were just saying, you know, I must have some capacity. I was thinking, sometimes you just don't have any. It's like, it's gone. It's gone. And it reminded me of a conversation that I had in therapy with my therapist a few years ago and I was going through some really kind of tough things and she drew a diagram of a volcano for me and then she said, so most people wake up in the morning and their stress levels are about here and then they rise throughout the day, right?
She said you wake up and your stress level is up here, pointed to the top of the volcano from the moment you wake up and that's what you're operating on. All day. So your volcano is going to erupt much sooner than everyone else's. And that's why you feel like you have no capacity because you don't have any, you don't have any.
Martha Barnard-Rae: Yeah.
Eman Ismail: I was just like, okay, wow. So now when I, when I have those times where I'm like, I have no capacity and that's, it's happened recently. it happened last year as well. When my, when my grandma passed away, I was just like, I'm done. I have no, see you later. Like literally log off, see you later. I'll be back when I do have capacity 'cause I'm done
Martha Barnard-Rae: Yeah, my same, my therapist was like, this was a couple years ago, she goes, when was the last time you were at like baseline calm? And I was like, what? What are you talking about?
Eman Ismail: That exists.
Martha Barnard-Rae: Like, it's, it's just crazy. And then, but the thing for me, like, The thing that ADHD medication really helps with, right, is like, if I take medication and it allows me to focus enough to get something that I need to get done, done, I don't feel like a piece of garbage.
I realized that like, I'm an okay person at running a business. I'm doing a good job. Everything's okay. My bowl of resilience has a little bit more in it. So that when, like, I used to describe ADHD as death by a thousand cuts because none of the cuts is like the death blow, but you're just like, uh, like what's wrong with me. But when you, your bowl of resilience is like a little bit more full when your kids get home from school that like you have a little bit more in the tank to interact with them react to their overstimulation and, and support them through the evening and go through the evening routine. But like, if you finish the work day, believing like, Oh, another day of like, I got nothing done. Me, what is wrong with me? And maybe I'm the worst person in the world. Maybe I need to like shit can this business.
You just have nothing left to like, interact with your child who is also super drained from having like a whole day of like trying to be normal. So it, it's, it's like, it just, yeah. makes your volcano level a little bit lower, I think, in my experience. Anyway,
Eman Ismail: Yeah. Absolutely. Again, this conversation has been fascinating. Thank you so much for being here. Where can people find you if they wanna stay connected?
Martha Barnard-Rae: my website is wordcandy.com.Au.I'm also on Instagram at Word Candy Comms, C-O-M-M-S. and I like on LinkedIn and, you know. But the website has all the information about my hyper focus week service, which I designed using your foolproof system. Yes,
Eman Ismail: you so much. In case anyone else is, in case you're listening and you're interested in the Designing VIP Week Masterclass yourself, I will put the link in the show notes and I'll do a little offer as well for podcast listeners. So yes, because, well, you know, you sold it so well and, and if it helped you out, then I'm happy.
Martha Barnard-Rae: yeah, the thing that you did that was really helpful is you laid out what it looks like. You explained, you know, I do this on this day. I do this on this day. This means I have time to do this. This means I have, you talked about pricing, you, you just like talked about all the important things.
Cause otherwise I was like, I have no idea how I would go about doing this. I'm not a systems person.
Eman Ismail: Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot and I just completely updated it and I think it's even better than it was. So, yes, I will put the link in the show notes and look out for the offer that will be for podcast listeners Martha Thank you so much for being here. It was brilliant speaking to you
Martha Barnard-Rae: Thank you so much for having me. It was brilliant speaking to you too.
Eman Ismail: For me, this conversation with Martha isn't just about how to build a business when you're a neurodivergent person. It's about how to build a business that's perfectly designed for you. Your life, your health, your circumstances, your family, your passion, your likes, your dislikes. It's a brilliant reminder that we work really hard to have the flexibility and freedom that we have.
So why would we waste that building a business that works for everyone else but us, instead of taking the time to understand what we need as individuals and building a business based on exactly that.
I was really touched that what changed things for Martha was my Design Your VIP Week Masterclass.
Don't forget, if you're interested in it and you want to see what all the fuss is about, I'm giving you $50 off. Just head over to emancopyco.com/VIP-podcast, or click the link in the show notes and sign up for your discount.
If you decide to join me for the Masterclass, I hope it's as life changing for you as it was for Martha.
Ever wondered what goes into creating this podcast? What my production process looks like? How I came up with the concept for this show? How I choose which guests to invite and how exactly I research them? Well, I'm sharing everything inside my Bonus episode behind the scenes, making the podcast. For this special episode, the show's podcast producers, Zuri Berry takes the reins and interviews me so you can find out all the juicy details and behind the scenes stories. I reveal for the first time ever, how I landed the HubSpot partnership and what that agreement involves, as well as the key to sending a podcast, pitch that'll get my attention, the interview methods that helped me nail my podcast interviews, and the resources and strategies I've used to help make this show a success. If you want instant access to this bonus episode, click the link in the show notes or head over to emancopyco.com/BTS. That's behind the scenes, emancopyco.com/BTS. Put in your email address and that's it. It's yours.